Curse

Bizaflare · Jun 07, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

This thread is awesome.

I like those Air Elementalists without a single utility spell complaining about ~lame~ teambuilds just because their "player-skilled" funky spiky peak damage does not work

Damage without utility is nothing in Guildwars - so thanks to KCHS and all other Ritual based builds - to prove this

[Flame]I'd highly recommend WoW or DAoC if you dont like this system ^^[/Flame]

KonohaFlash · Jun 07, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

how bout some bread for your whine virtuoso?

ElevenBravo · Jun 07, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You need at least two, and preferably 3 copies of any nature ritual if you want it to have a consistent, lasting effect.

Hey, I they only had 3 rituals up I wouldn’t have started this thread. I forget what map it was but we had just finished killing our opponent and went into the middle of the map. The "Diarrhea" build was attacking another team and we just watched and laughed as 1 of their rangers was squirting out spirits like he just ate some bad Mexican food. There where about 6 frozen soils and about 5 other spirits all spread out of the middle of the open area in the map. And that was just 1 ranger, the other 2 had them squirting out all around the other team area.

My only complaint is the number of them being used. Thats it. Im not complaining about the build. Just the number of spirits.

RepinsMirg · Jun 07, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

What is wrong with the number? You don't like the fact that you can't cancel the effect easily? Why would you just make a couple spirits to be easily destroyed if you're going to make a build around it that would be plain stupid.

RandomEngy · Jun 07, 2005, 03:23 PM // 15:23

This is where you elaborate and say exactly why large numbers of spirits are bad.

(edit) Beat me to it :P

Kishin · Jun 07, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

Hey, I they only had 3 rituals up I wouldn’t have started this thread. I forget what map it was but we had just finished killing our opponent and went into the middle of the map. The "Diarrhea" build was attacking another team and we just watched and laughed as 1 of their rangers was squirting out spirits like he just ate some bad Mexican food. There where about 6 frozen soils and about 5 other spirits all spread out of the middle of the open area in the map. And that was just 1 ranger, the other 2 had them squirting out all around the other team area.

My only complaint is the number of them being used. Thats it. Im not complaining about the build. Just the number of spirits.

That statement makes no sense. What you're basically saying is, "Ok, you guys can use this build that I've complained about across multiple threads, but you need to limit the number of spirits used. I mean, come on, guys."

Its like saying "Ok, you can have three monks, but they can only cast Orison of Healing/Heal Other ten times each. Because, anything else would be too much healing."

Tellani Artini · Jun 07, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Poor Mumblyfish has (almost) nothing but rituals on his skill bar. What's he supposed to do besides use them? Shout obscenities?

Do you think it would help to balance rituals if they cost around 15 energy, just to slow down the rate of use? Seems reasonable to me.

ElevenBravo · Jun 07, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Ok, if using an unlimited number of spirits isnt a bad thing, then why shouldnt I be able to use an unlimited number of wards? Create multiple wards everywhere, have 5 or 6 Wards Against Melee to make one big large circle, for example?

No, if you just upped the engery cost then a necro could use BIP on the ranger and you get the same result. If you increase casting time then you could have a m/r build and use fast casting.

Siran Dunmorgan · Jun 07, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

Ok, if using an unlimited number of spirits isn't a bad thing, then why shouldn't I be able to use an unlimited number of wards? Create multiple wards everywhere, have 5 or 6 Wards Against Melee to make one big large circle, for example?

...

Are you not able to create multiple wards? I certainly am. If you have a nice open area to cast in, you can have a field fairly sparkling with ward circles.

So, aye—five or six elementalists can cast five or six Wards Against Melee, and have them all effective at the same time. If you've got the maximum numbers in the governing attribute—earth, generally, or water, for Ward Against Harm—the recharge time will match the effective time and you should be able to keep them going continuously.

Given that the cast time is only one second, you should be able to have multiple elementalists in a "Ward' build maintaining all of the Earth-based wards simultaneously, so you could have wards against foes, melee, and elements up all the time.

I don't see an issue with that, other than that you've got more than half your team tied up in Ward maintenance.

—Siran Dunmorgan

toastgodsupreme · Jun 07, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

So the point is... why did no one kill the ritualist once they saw this start? If frozen soil had already been laid, all the better.

The opportunity is there for the opposing team to stop it from getting insane.

Badass tactics really. And I LOVE seeing KCHS win HoH. I laugh every time I see it show up.

KuTeBaka · Jun 10, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

instead of whining about it, why dont you try something to beat it? maybe try setting a couple of EoE spirits and using dot spells to kill the enemy spirits? I dont think the spirits get healed, just kill 3 and the other ones should be majorly crippled.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jun 10, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElevenBravo

Well said. My point exactly. Congrats though on your "inventive" spamming technique. Im sure that took, what, a whole 5 minutes to think up?

My guild doesnt use a heavy air elem build so Im not complaining that we lost because of that. We only had 1 air elem I think during our match against you, maybe 2.

And I dont mind losing. We lose alot we win alot. We lose to alot of different builds, we lose to body blocking on King of the Hill, Im not complaining about those thing either.

Im just saying, your build is bad for pvp and I dont think the dev teams intention was to have players spam so many spirits. I have nothing against using spirits. Because what happens is people see you build and how effective it is and copy it. Then you have 2 team on the same map spamming spirits everywhere. Then guild wars turns into Spirit Wars. Its just the shear number of them that are being used.

You know what it reminds me of? If any of you have ever played Star Wars Galaxies, it reminds me of the game in early stages when you could have 2 large pets, 2 at-st, a droid and you have 1 man walking army who could take on anything. You go to pvp 1 guy and POOF, all of a sudden he has all these NPC's that end up killing you, not him.

What a sore loser, especially since spirits affect BOTH sides. Just admit that you're mad because you lost in an unconventional way and can't understand why. Otherwise stop whining.

Chaynsaw · Jun 10, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

You're looking at the build in a really shallow manner. The point isn't to have lots of spirits around, it's to craft a team that those spirits will benefit. Every single one of those effects benefits our team (Except sometimes edge of extinction). Sure one could argue that the one spirit-laying guy doesn't take too much skill (other than staying alive) but the rest of the team still has to play at their best and communicate well to get to and win the HoH.

I must preface my comments: I don't care about the spirit effects. You should be able to interrupt the ritualist or kill the spirits.

With all respect to KCHS, because while I thought it was an inventive tactic and was genuinely amused, I felt that it was a little abusive... why? RandomEngy is not being completely truthful about how the KCHS uses/used spirit spam. In other words, it WASN'T just about spirit effects, it was about quantity, hence... spirit spam.

KCHS used the tactic to flood the relic runs with spirits so you could not get to their relic. In conjunction with a Ward of Foes, you literally cannot reach the relic.

Props to KCHS for using an interesting tactic, but as far as flooding the area with spirits so you can't reach the relic... I do believe it is slightly abusive.

My suggestion is to make the spirits transparent.

Bazooka · Jun 10, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

I really enjoyed the difference in the pvp matches.Thanks for keeping the wheel of innovation and competition turning but I agree the Spirits should not cause collisions.

We paid $50 for a game that keeps evolving. How can you not be excited?

ElevenBravo · Jun 10, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

@ Chaynsaw:

Why? The devs obviously put it in that game for teams to spam spirits all around the relic so it must be a legal tactic. I mean, body blocking the relic is legal so why not spammed spirits? I think your point of view on this is realy shallow. And it takes great skill to come up with a strat like that, great skill. I mean if they can spam spirits all over a regular map, why not a relic map?
/end sarcasm

shawn23233 · Jun 10, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eight Rooks

Thanks. We definitely weren't the first people to try it as a counter; some of us saw people making some small-scale use of it in the arenas. But we didn't see anyone using rituals much in Tombs/HoH, and definitely not on this scale. I think it was Tellani thought of seriously going for it, another of us thought of going mad with it, and we just practised with it for an evening to get our tactics up to scratch for it.

Now let's all think of another weird strategy.

yeah I have faced this tactic too and had no real trouble defeating it, but I think you guys have mastered it. That is get more up faster then others are able to do and at some point it would become very difficult to endure.

RandomEngy · Jun 10, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaynsaw

I must preface my comments: I don't care about the spirit effects. You should be able to interrupt the ritualist or kill the spirits.

With all respect to KCHS, because while I thought it was an inventive tactic and was genuinely amused, I felt that it was a little abusive... why? RandomEngy is not being completely truthful about how the KCHS uses/used spirit spam. In other words, it WASN'T just about spirit effects, it was about quantity, hence... spirit spam.

KCHS used the tactic to flood the relic runs with spirits so you could not get to their relic. In conjunction with a Ward of Foes, you literally cannot reach the relic.

Props to KCHS for using an interesting tactic, but as far as flooding the area with spirits so you can't reach the relic... I do believe it is slightly abusive.

My suggestion is to make the spirits transparent.

The relic was never completely blocked off. They simply aided in our bodyblocking efforts. We did use them to make the flag area more congested and that helped us some (along with the constant human blocking, slow wards and cripple). However that's only a side benefit of them. If all they could do was block a little, there would be no way we'd devote an entire player to doing the rituals.

What I'd really like to see done away with is blocking in general. The ghostly hero and relic carriers should just be able to walk through anyone.

Jia Xu · Jun 10, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumblyfish

So we bit the bullet, Echo'd Edge of Extinction (along with Serpent's Quickness) and covered the map with it. Hence, when our team died shortly afterwards, everyone else did with us still holding the altar.

That is genius my friend

Now will everyone please stop crying exploit - how the heck is it an exploit? all they are doing is using skills that rangers can use?!

Further - stop moaning that it requires no skill - anyone can organise a chain lightning spam, its pathetic every time my guild comes up against an ele build and we simply slaughter it.

You guys out there simply have to sit down with your guild or your friends and try to make a build that can take on pretty much any build and have a more than 50-50 chance of winning against them. Look when you see Dynasty Warriors win the HoH - we never use any particularly unique builds, such as air ele essence bonds, spirit heavy builds (not spirit spam builds) or ward builds. We simply have made a build that we think can take on most enemies and win, not because of what professions or strategies we have, but because we know each other's abilities (and have some impressive players i'm thankful for

)

I just love it when people complain about these kind of innovative builds - heck, the first essence bond / life bond air ele build was complained about by every person talking crap in general speak in Tombs - and now they are all using it? I say to them:

Get over it. The people who complain don't (generally) have any innovative ideas about guild wars, they simply wait for someone better than them (but they won't admit it) to make a good solid build and then leech it off them straight away. its annoying as hell that people can be so hypocritical.

Props to [KCHS] - its funky.

Chaynsaw · Jun 10, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomEngy

The relic was never completely blocked off. They simply aided in our bodyblocking efforts. We did use them to make the flag area more congested and that helped us some (along with the constant human blocking, slow wards and cripple). However that's only a side benefit of them. If all they could do was block a little, there would be no way we'd devote an entire player to doing the rituals.

What I'd really like to see done away with is blocking in general. The ghostly hero and relic carriers should just be able to walk through anyone.

Fair enough.

Elythor · Jun 11, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Fairly easer counter: max Domination Mesmer with interrupt and Diversion. Sure, you can get your first spirit off...but you won't be spamming them for long.

Otherwise spirit spamming is very refreshing over air ele spam or minion spam. Congrats on your HoH win.